HIPPIAS:So they are--very.

SOCRATES:And if they are prudent,do they know or do they not know what they do?

HIPPIAS:Of course,they know very well;and that is why they do mischief to others.

SOCRATES:And having this knowledge,are they ignorant,or are they wise?

HIPPIAS:Wise,certainly;at least,in so far as they can deceive.

SOCRATES:Stop,and let us recall to mind what you are saying;are you not saying that the false are powerful and prudent and knowing and wise in those things about which they are false?

HIPPIAS:To be sure.

SOCRATES:And the true differ from the false--the true and the false are the very opposite of each other?

HIPPIAS:That is my view.

SOCRATES:Then,according to your view,it would seem that the false are to be ranked in the class of the powerful and wise?

HIPPIAS:Assuredly.

SOCRATES:And when you say that the false are powerful and wise in so far as they are false,do you mean that they have or have not the power of uttering their falsehoods if they like?

HIPPIAS:I mean to say that they have the power.

SOCRATES:In a word,then,the false are they who are wise and have the power to speak falsely?

HIPPIAS:Yes.

SOCRATES:Then a man who has not the power of speaking falsely and is ignorant cannot be false?

HIPPIAS:You are right.

SOCRATES:And every man has power who does that which he wishes at the time when he wishes.I am not speaking of any special case in which he is prevented by disease or something of that sort,but I am speaking generally,as I might say of you,that you are able to write my name when you like.Would you not call a man able who could do that?

HIPPIAS:Yes.

SOCRATES:And tell me,Hippias,are you not a skilful calculator and arithmetician?

HIPPIAS:Yes,Socrates,assuredly I am.

SOCRATES:And if some one were to ask you what is the sum of 3 multiplied by 700,you would tell him the true answer in a moment,if you pleased?

HIPPIAS:certainly I should.

SOCRATES:Is not that because you are the wisest and ablest of men in these matters?

HIPPIAS:Yes.

SOCRATES:And being as you are the wisest and ablest of men in these matters of calculation,are you not also the best?

HIPPIAS:To be sure,Socrates,I am the best.

SOCRATES:And therefore you would be the most able to tell the truth about these matters,would you not?

HIPPIAS:Yes,I should.

SOCRATES:And could you speak falsehoods about them equally well?I must beg,Hippias,that you will answer me with the same frankness and magnanimity which has hitherto characterized you.If a person were to ask you what is the sum of 3multiplied by 700,would not you be the best and most consistent teller of a falsehood,having always the power of speaking falsely as you have of speaking truly,about these same matters,if you wanted to tell a falsehood,and not to answer truly?Would the ignorant man be better able to tell a falsehood in matters of calculation than you would be,if you chose?Might he not sometimes stumble upon the truth,when he wanted to tell a lie,because he did not know,whereas you who are the wise man,if you wanted to tell a lie would always and consistently lie?

HIPPIAS:Yes,there you are quite right.

SOCRATES:Does the false man tell lies about other things,but not about number,or when he is making a calculation?

HIPPIAS:To be sure;he would tell as many lies about number as about other things.

SOCRATES:Then may we further assume,Hippias,that there are men who are false about calculation and number?

HIPPIAS:Yes.

SOCRATES:Who can they be?For you have already admitted that he who is false must have the ability to be false:you said,as you will remember,that he who is unable to be false will not be false?

HIPPIAS:Yes,I remember;it was so said.

SOCRATES:And were you not yourself just now shown to be best able to speak falsely about calculation?

HIPPIAS:Yes;that was another thing which was said.

SOCRATES:And are you not likewise said to speak truly about calculation?

HIPPIAS:Certainly.

SOCRATES:Then the same person is able to speak both falsely and truly about calculation?And that person is he who is good at calculation--the arithmetician?

HIPPIAS:Yes.

SOCRATES:Who,then,Hippias,is discovered to be false at calculation?

Is he not the good man?For the good man is the able man,and he is the true man.

HIPPIAS:That is evident.

SOCRATES:Do you not see,then,that the same man is false and also true about the same matters?And the true man is not a whit better than the false;for indeed he is the same with him and not the very opposite,as you were just now imagining.

HIPPIAS:Not in that instance,clearly.

SOCRATES:Shall we examine other instances?

HIPPIAS:Certainly,if you are disposed.

SOCRATES:Are you not also skilled in geometry?

HIPPIAS:I am.

SOCRATES:Well,and does not the same hold in that science also?Is not the same person best able to speak falsely or to speak truly about diagrams;and he is--the geometrician?

HIPPIAS:Yes.

SOCRATES:He and no one else is good at it?

HIPPIAS:Yes,he and no one else.

SOCRATES:Then the good and wise geometer has this double power in the highest degree;and if there be a man who is false about diagrams the good man will be he,for he is able to be false;whereas the bad is unable,and for this reason is not false,as has been admitted.

HIPPIAS:True.

SOCRATES:Once more--let us examine a third case;that of the astronomer,in whose art,again,you,Hippias,profess to be a still greater proficient than in the preceding--do you not?

HIPPIAS:Yes,I am.

SOCRATES:And does not the same hold of astronomy?

HIPPIAS:True,Socrates.

SOCRATES:And in astronomy,too,if any man be able to speak falsely he will be the good astronomer,but he who is not able will not speak falsely,for he has no knowledge.

HIPPIAS:Clearly not.

SOCRATES:Then in astronomy also,the same man will be true and false?